Amanita pantherina doses?

[dexter666]

I was wondering what would be the doses compared to Muscaria like 10g seems about a good dose for Muscaria but what would be a good medium to strong dose for Amanita pantherina.

[Bars]

I have read that Amanita pantherina is very, even may be deadly poisonous. So you'd better don't try it. Disappointed_anim.gif

[rockhead]

I have done Amanita pantherina many times & prefer
it over muscaria. Although both species vary in
active compounds, I have found A. pantherina to
be twice as potent as A. muscaria with less nausea.

[dexter666]

I've heard it has less muscarine in it wich is good and alot more muscimol wich again is good.

[Stephen L. Peele]

I have heard that the people who do a lot of Ibotenic Acid extractions, prefer the Panther over A. muscaria because they can produce up to 12 times the amount.....the Ibotenic Acid (a very valuable compound at about $75.00 a mg! There are 1,000 mg. in one gram) breaks down to Muscimol under certain wave lengths of sunlight. Whether it be A. muscaria or A. pantherina, if you want the Ibotenic Acid, you machine dry them and hold in the dark. For high levels of Muscimol, simply sun dry. For more information on this hallucinogenic toxin, Muscimol, go www.mushroomsfmrc.com (http://www.mushroomsfmrc.com) then to "Discussion" then to Amanita Mushrooms. slp/fmrc

[psychopsilocyber]

you cant be serious. If you think a painfully slow (2 weeks or so) death is "trippy" then knock yourself out. I'm all for population control but this is a little fucked up.

[dexter666]

Ok but Amanita pantherina is not deadly although it does contain some Muscarine wich is the killer not nearly enough to kill a person at psychedelic levels its basically just like the Muscaria but with a higher level of Muscimol wich causes the good effects and nobody has ever died from these or atleast thats what erowid has stated because theres never been a documented one meaning they seem to be pretty safe the ones that are killers in this family of mushrooms are Amanita virosa (Destroying Angel) and Amanita phalloides (Death Cap) plus some other ones that are less common but as for these two pychoactive mushrooms being disscussed they seem to be safe as long as you don't go above 30g for Muscaria and i'm guessing about 8g for Pantherina although alot of books and other resources i have read all have classified these two as being deadly but this seems to be false i would expect that Pantherina to be more likely to cause bad reactions but not death.

[another_paradox]

i use a. pantherina, as muscaria is less commun around here. i find they are about 150%-200% as potent as a. muscaria (read: up to twice as potent). as always be careful, start low.

i find the best, most potent, and most consistantly potent are the younger ones. they seem to be great when the caps are still round, and about 1 to 2 inches across.

[misty]

Quoting from the "National Audubon Society Field Guide to North American Mushrooms," available at your local Barnes & Nobles and I'm sure off Amazon.com.

Aminita pantherina, comments:
Its toxins cause delirium, raving, and a comalike deep sleep.

Aminita muscaria, comments: The Fly Agarics of North America cause delirium, raving and profuse sweating. Unlike its Siberian relative, this induces no visions.

Aminita muscaria var. formosa, comments:
Although it is not deadly, it should not be eaten because it contains toxic compounds that may cause sweating, deep sleep, and disorientation

Anyway, the general approach of this book is to help guide mushroom conisuers, and it labels psycoactive mushrooms as being poisinous, however it does recognize people quite often partake in these experiences and does try to advise. From the reading I would consider them to be psycoactive mushrooms to be used for a psycedellic experience.

There's also the Destroying Angel and the Death Cap which are also listed in this book, which general cause very bad vomiting and diareah and liver and kidney failure over two weeks. Bad stuff. I happen to have both of the deadly aminitas growing in my yard, and they are easy to identify with this field guide. Strange thing is the Death Cap supposedly doesn't grow south on NC and of course I've seen them in GA and FL.

[mixmaster]

Anybody else amused at how many edot members believe that amanita muscaria/pantherina are deadly?

If that were the case, this entry would not have been able to be posted.

[zakmalados]

I have an ounce bag of Amanita Muscaria, but have not ever gotten up the nerve to eat it (or some portion of it). The "ooh run away" crowd has managed to freak me, just a bit. I don't fear that it will kill me (or, not much), but I have noticed a lot of "its a bummer trip" reports and they kinda bother me.

It is freaky how many people think they are deadly; even those who know better.
:SadD:
Zak

[mixmaster]

Go slow, get to know this sacred gift...perhaps the most ancient entheogen of all time...and don't forget to rest/sleep when she tells you to... :splitspawn:

[misty]

Well after hearing some friends of mine talk about BC I'm definiteley adding Vancouver to my short list of cities to visit (Amsterdam is the other, thus now making it a list.)

I would love to trip off a shroom that after a few hours put me to sleep. Psilocybe cubensis will keep you up all night long and after about 9 hours you are like, man I wish this would stop!

[obit]

They are apparently a fantastic tasting shroom.
If chopped, boiled and the water discarded most muscimol is removed (along with most nutrients). Several cultures use these (Amanita Muscaria) as food sources.
Read this a few years ago (from adm I think):

"As usually used by people in this country, large quantities of the rather nauseating dry mushrooms are imbibed, the person gets sick for a while, then has a rather fearful and scary trip. Thus, the rather grim reputation of muscaria gets perpetuated. People who gather it from the wild and eat it by mistake usually get hysterical when they feel the onset of nausea and psychic effects and have a royal freak-out (it starts with, "I've eaten a poisonous mushroom! I'm going to die!!!"). This also perpetuates the dark repute of what is probably Mother Nature's finest winter tonic and a wonderfully benign life-enhancer WHEN PROPERLY USED! Why do I seem to be the only modern person who has ever thought of using this stuff in a safe and sane manner? People are less original than they think, and ancient tribal taboos are more potent than supposedly sophisticated modern academics realise...

I have used Amanita muscaria continuously for several months at a time, and I think it is a real health-enhancer when correctly used. The key factor is dosage.

Basically, use no more than 1 to 2 tablespoons at a time, and no more than about half a cup in a day. If muscaria agrees with you, you can use it every day if you like throughout the cooler months of the year. I think it is too warming for the hot days of summer, but fine the rest of the year, and it can really help you to stand up to winter cold.

The first problem is supply. There are sources for the dried mushroom and "extracts", but they are rather questionable and extremely expensive and I don't recommend them at all. You should gather this mushroom from the wild when it is in season. You can ask your local mushrooming club (unlike, say---morels, they won't be secretive about sources of A. muscaria unless they think they are protecting you from suicide), or consult books or a specialist in the regional mycology at your local university, but be prepared to do some research. It is found throughout the country in forested areas, and while the season is short, the mushroom often fruits in great abundance, and you can easily gather a year's supply. In some areas there are two seasons, one in summer and the other in the fall. If you have a choice, gather the summer mushrooms as there is evidence that they are more potent and have less physical side effects.

Fortunately, there is nothing really dangerous that looks like this most distinctive of all mushrooms, but in most of the Eastern U.S., Fly Mushroom is golden rather than red in color,(this kind is called Amanita muscaria formosa) and you need to be more careful. Trust me, it is well worth the trouble to research this mushroom to be able to gather it safely! Don't be too open about what you are up to, as people are very apt to freak out if you tell them. A. muscaria is not in any way a controlled substance however.

Beware of what you read from the "authorities" on the effects of this mushroom. An absolutely INCREDIBLE amount of misinformation has been printed about Amanita muscaria, and I probably know as much about its medicinal effects as anyone in the country.

Once you have your mushrooms, you need to think about preservation. The traditional way to do this is the one you should avoid, namely drying. It gives the mushrooms a bitter, metallic taste and makes them rather nauseating. You can keep them in the fridge a few days wrapped in paper towels provided you cut off the usually maggot-containing stalk. You can mince the shrooms with garlic and pickle in vinegar and salt, preserved in the fridge (a spoonful or so is great in a salad dressing). To keep longer, dip the mushrooms in brandy (or rum, or whatever spirit you like...) and freeze them. You must include a preservative when freezing or the mushrooms will spoil even while frozen. You can also sauté the mushrooms in olive oil or butter and freeze cooked, if you want to avoid alcohol.

These mushrooms have an absolutely delicious taste when properly prepared, and are one of the outstanding gourmet fungi of the world. The intensity of the flavor seems to have some correlation with the potency, so you can get an idea of the quality of the raw mushrooms by tasting a little bit. If the mushroom is strong, the meaty flavor will fill your whole mouth. Amanita muscaria seems to especially favour rich French sauces and hearty Italian ones. It can really enhance the flavor of meat dishes, even in amounts as small as a teaspoon or two, and I have used it in this way as a flavor enhancer. It is far finer than MSG. For some reason, it does not seem to go well with chile or Mexican dishes. It is also excellent in omelets and scrambled eggs. One of my favourite ways to prepare it is to sauté it with minced shallots in butter, then add a little sour cream and salt and pepper. Served over a slice of toasted French bread, it is simply wonderful! It is also superb in pastas.

Please remember not to be beguiled by the wonderful flavor and overindulge. There is a record of a man eating a hundred mushrooms at a meal and soon after going into a coma. They were able to save his life, though I honestly don't know how after such an insane overdose. Keep everybody's total intake to no more than 1 to 2 tablespoons per person. Eaten at breakfast, amanita will make everybody cheerful and energetic. Consumed in a fine dinner in the evening with a good wine, it will make people happy, talkative, sociable and relaxed. I have never seen its equal as an overall social mood-enhancer, and despite using it on many occasions, I have never had anyone report a negative experience. The only complaint I have received is from people who say they feel nothing, but even these become noticeably more cheerful and talkative.

My mother sometimes puts a little in my stepfather's dinner to keep him awake instead of falling asleep immediately after eating. Keep it away from pets, especially cats who are lethally sensitive to it. I feel it should be kept from children too, especially small ones. We both like to include some in breakfast when we need extra energy for the day.

The basic value of muscaria, besides being a delightful tonic, is in dealing with seasonal and weather related depressive conditions. It really helped me to get through my first real winter in Flagstaff (we had twenty feet of snow and the temperature got down as far as 25 below zero) after a lifetime of living in the desert. I would wake up on a grim, iron-gray morning wanting to spend the day hiding under the blankets, feeling stiff and depressed and chilled to the bone. I would trudge down to the kitchen and have a cup of coffee, then cut off two tablespoons of frozen muscaria from a package in the freezer and sauté it in a little butter. I scrambled it with eggs and cheese, and enjoyed the rich flavor. Within 15 minutes I would feel a surge of energy and cheerfulness. I became toasty warm and invigorated.

The morning would look beautifully pearly-gray, and I anticipated all the things I was going to happily do. I used A. muscaria daily throughout the cold winter months and it wonderfully enhanced my winter-hardiness. It really got me through the acclimatization process. When muscaria works well, it puts a subtle tension in your muscles and makes you want to go out and do something. I am prone to seasonal affective disorder, but muscaria completely counteracts that. It even made Christmas a genuinely happy occasion. For the first time, I experienced the holidays without a hint of depression. If I sound a little bit in love with the stuff, you are correct.

The summers have been too dry recently for muscaria, but I hope we get lucky this year and I can store some up.

During the early fall, before it got cold and when I had large quantities of fresh mushrooms, I experimented with larger doses (but no more than 1 cup total in a day). With 4 tablespoons at a meal, I often had a little nausea, and would either get drowsy or become hyper and speedy. In the latter case, I often became hyperaware, with a distinct feeling of the heebie-jeebies, like you get when you sleep in an old house and can hear every crack and creak. Both this and the nausea would wear off in half an hour. If I continued such doses throughout the day, I felt a pleasant but distinct sense of intoxication and an oddly detached feeling like being wrapped in a soft fuzzy blanket. By nightfall, I would have rather pretty closed-eye visuals of what looked like jewel-encrusted objects. I would go out into the nearby woods to meditate at night. The darkness was deep and velvety and welcoming and house lights were supernally luminous and beautiful. In meditation, I felt wonderfully expanded and immersed in a blissful ocean of quiet yet profound peace and joyfulness.

I have read the 9th Book of the Rig Veda (the one with the Soma Hymns) under the full influence of Amanita muscaria and I am absolutely convinced that it really is the Sacred Soma of Ancient India; it was remarkably easy to identify the sentiments the authors expressed with what I, myself, was feeling. I don't think anything else would have the same effect, certainly not Syrian Rue (completely non-euphoric) or psilocybe (physically gruelling if you attempt extended use). Two things the ancient poets mentioned that I also found true was that Soma gave you deep, restful, healing sleep when you were ill, and it banished fearfulness and gave courage without also banishing your common sense.

The ancient poems clearly describe using Soma for multiple times per day (Vedic Law allowed you to use it three times in one day) and taking it daily for extended periods as a tonic and medicine, just as I had done. Such usage would be SERIOUSLY harmful and counterproductive if you tried doing it with psilocybe mushrooms!

The courage thing matters too. I am somewhat prone to shyness and social phobia, but not with A. muscaria. If I ever try parachuting, I suspect that the only way I would be able to get myself to jump out of the airplane that first time would be to use a little muscaria before-hand. Perhaps it could be useful in dealing with phobias and shyness. The ancient poems certainly suggest that.

I didn't use such high doses again after winter started, but I experimented with abruptly ceasing use temporarily after that period to test for addiction potential. I liked it so much that I was a little concerned about this. It took 3 days to completely come down after extended use of muscaria, but there were no withdrawal effects and no craving. I had the same experience when I ran out of my frozen mushrooms the following spring. I think it is reasonably safe in that regard. The Siberian natives often used muscaria rather abusively in the winter with some signs of physical harmful effects (very similar to those associated with kava kava addiction), but this reflected the horrendous winters they had to endure and the lack of any alternatives. The natives say that the potential harm of muscaria was trivial compared to the harmfulness of the Russian vodka which replaced it. They also used it as a medicine to give restful sleep to the seriously ill and as a stimulating tonic for hard work in the winter. I and a friend have confirmed this winter tonic effect. The potency is increased if you combine it with Oriental Red Ginseng; such a combination can give great endurance and cold-resistance. On the other hand, I did not find muscaria particularly helpful by itself in straight depression; it is primarily meant for seasonal and weather-related depressive conditions and possibly shyness and phobias. A wonderful gift from Sweet Mother Gaia!

In animal experiments, muscaria had the ability to potentiate tranquilizers, sedatives, narcotics and other pharamaceuticals that effect the central nervous system, and should probably not be used with potent examples of these agents (I had no problems with OTC medicines or Tylenol#3 with codeine, however). It can also increase muscle tone (mild overdoses cause noticeable twitching) and should be used cautiously in people with back or orthopedic problems. In small doses, the active ingredients show anticonvulsant and antispasmodic effects, but the opposite is true with large doses, so it should probably not be used by epileptics, especially those requiring medication. It also has very perceptable appetite-suppressing effects (far stronger than amphetamines in animal experiments), which may be a good thing or a bad thing depending on the situation. I have used it for weight control. I find that a fairly small amount of amanita-laced food completely satisfies the appetite and makes you more physically active to boot, so it may have potential here...

Anyway, don't take my word for it, explore this wonderful fungus for yourself, just don't overindulge! I have never used it in seriously entheogenic doses, I found it far too spooky and unnerving long before I got to that point, but you can read vivid accounts in various "trip reports" available on the web. Most people who have used it in such large doses tend to become afraid of it and avoid it, so such usage is an entirely different matter than the uses I have described here. I can't help you with that."

Since there are literally thousands about at the moment I thought I'd give it a try. Picked about 10kgs in probably 15 mins, but made the mistake (I think) of washing them well before cooking ie.
removing a lot of the ibotenic acid and muscimol.
Seem to be getting a slight mood enhancement from a small 3tblspns and my mum (she's 75) want's to eat a heap of them due to the taste which she describes as "absolutely beautiful". Ed must do many and more extensive bio-assays before mum can have a meal of them, but the above article so far seems to bear weight. Will post more info when a conclusion is reached
ed

They grow all over the world. They seem to be sparked by temperature change. Just about the time of the first frost, or right after the first frost, is when you want to start looking for them. It is at this time a hormone signal is sent to the roots from the tree. It is this same signal that causes the fruiting. In a lot of areas, this could be around Thanksgiving. Down here on the Gulf Coast, I find them around the end of November or the first part of December. As you move further North, the time is earlier. That is the only time they fruit until the following year. You can many times find hundreds of them. Best to dry and store away if you want to have any. There usually won't be any more until the same time next year........slp/fmrc

This is from Mr. P.'s site. Sounds like good advice to me.

[reshroomED]

Now that looks damiliar biglaugh.gif
ed

[mutant]

I want to note that the text in Obit's post is refered to Amanita muscaria and not Amanita pantherina which a significantly more potent and much less studied. It might be of importance we don't [yet?] have a report of A.pantherina used traditially like A.muscaria. I assume that is its difficult and risky to work with a material like A.pantherina so chose A.muscaria if you decide to experiment.

Wow! I really love to spot here this same guy from that Mr. P's site.. He also got an great retrospective report in erowid I had read a long time ago... this one here is much more extrended, really great stuff!

When swim tried to experiment with Amanita muscaria , he came more or less to the same conclusions, only swin didn't yet attempt to go for a breakthrough dose. And, while searching for opinions on A.pantherina , swim finds again the hints of this very like minded guy from America. Really great.. What is this Mr. P's site? I want to try to spot the guy...

One thing I disagree with him as in thet dried muscarias don't smell or taste bad, especially if you like mushroom soups and/or dried mushroom aroma. I nearly dry every mushroom I pick for meals, I love the way they smell.

Another thing my friend swim told me he didn't quite agree was the appetite suppression effect. Actually swim has noticed an appetite increase , and also taste enhancer for days after a single euphoric low-mid does use. I might have potential in weight control by stabilizing it, but that a rough assuption.

Well this is really great article!!!


Why do I seem to be the only modern person who has ever thought of using this stuff in a safe and sane manner?

Swim says he seems to be using amanitas kind of like alcohol , an euphoric and mood enhancer. Low to mid doses resemple drunkeness - only your mind ain't blurred. Swim also says that combining this with alcohol or the.. unmentionable or both wouldn't be such a good idea especially for those not familiar with eother consuption, and that in any case, if someone combines it, he should be very careful. Swim has never passed out or suddenly slept during an amanita session, but there were on occasion where some friend [he was quite tired physically] suddenly fell in a deep sleep lasting 3 hours in the couch he sat and we were all sitting and talking. We made quite a noise while he slept. He woke up refreased and cheerful if somewhat disappointed, when he saw he hadn't slept 30 minutes as he thought, and the company was in amanitas sedation phase.

Sudden lethergy seems possible also when combined with alcohol or in larger doses... Take care and do not overdose!

[deadtotheworld]

Jack Herer, after he had a stroke used small amounts of Amanita M every day and recovered at a profound rate!!!

[Anima]

I'm sorry, but dried amanita muscaria smells and taste like jizz to me. I even prefer drinking my own amanita muscaria infused urine to eating those nasty mushrooms.

BTW, low to mid doses are very nice and the effect reminds me of ghb. AM also stimulates my appetite the way ghb did. I also got delerious and confused when I took too much(which scared the shit out of my family) just like on ghb. After a week of using the mushroom pretty much constantly and then ceasing I had clear withdrawel symptoms that were very much like those I got from ghb.

These are mysterious mushrooms but as far as my experience with them goes, "trip" is totally the wrong word. These mushrooms produced a very nice buzz that I found habituating but my experience wasn't psychedelic unless you count the odd transition from sleep to wakefullness that I experienced while eating them.

To me, although the effect is signifigantly different, the closest analog would be as I've said, ghb.

[zaorr]

Oke,.... So in short, what is the safest way to enjoy these?

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc256/wenresep/Panther1.jpg


http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc256/wenresep/Panther2.jpg

[mutant]

Unlike Amanita muscaria, Amanita pantherina has a couple of look alikes. [f.e Amanita spissa]. Those in your fotoz do seem like pantherinas though. I would be more positive if you posted the stem bases and volvas...

That said, nooone would really advise you to experiment with these, neither would I. If you want to enjoy them [and not go wild on them], then you should be very careful of the dosage. If I must give some advice, you should follow the mentality I propose in other Amanita related threads. Also, last night Swim confirmed that the effects might take as long as 2 hours to strike. Be very careful with redosing, especially with pantherinas.

Sundrying or oven-drying is essential, also be very cautious with dosage man!

Swim didn't yet experiment with pantherinas, but I wouldn't start with more than 1 gr dried material. The most I have seen reported is 4gr consumed, but I would not in any case recommend. Maybe smoke a bit for your first time, maybe 3-5 hours before going to sleep.

Pantherina's potency varies as Muscaria's , so don't believe anyone giving specific doses. Search for your materials potency and your own sensitivity.

Amanitas are not for the hasty, that's one for sure ;)

Please, DO report back!

[foucault]

great info thanks!
Swim tried for the first time the other day, and loved the effects (of a test dose) and the after glow the next day was very plesant.

[mutant]

Another recent e-dot Amanita pantherina bioessay on 6gramms per person is here (http://www.entheogen.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14825&highlight=pantherina)

some 12-14 hours ago I did my first bioessay of amanita pantherina. here is my report...

ABOUT. 2 persons. purpose is to be careful, aim to a low-mid dose like others I have had with a.muscaria.

MATERIAL: Self picked from an oak forest. The material was oven dried, then powderised then exposed to sun light at daytime and UV light [a cheap 'black' light] the rest of the time, for a couple of days.

PREPARATION: 2,5 cups of water were brought to boil, then left to sit. 4,2 gr of powderised dried mushroom was added, left and stirred a few times, then served. Some of the material, as well as half a cup wasn't consumed [left in the pan for now]. The taste and aroma were milder, but still pleasant.

MAIN EXPERIENCE: It was me and a friend, not accustomed with amanita, but not really virgin to psychoactives. I advised him to drink only half of his cup at first and then wait a bit, while I rushed mine to determine the potency... The tea was very potent! With what I estimate was somewhat less then 2 gr for each person, the effect came quite fast and was distict, euphoric and uplifting. Actually it was one of the 2 more distinctively euphoric and energetic experience with amanitas I have had. With some reservation, I could say it had a bit different chracter to muscaria, but I cannot say in what way. I drank some sips more of the remaining material after some 2~2:30 hours. They 'worked' and as we were improvising electronic music with the friend, I decided I needn't finish it [that 1/4 cup, nor the other 1/4 sitting in the pan with the remaining material].

My friend said it worked, actually quite fast, as I noticed. He was both euphoric and energetic and afterwards pleasantly sedated but still cheerful, until I left to leave hime alone with his girlfriend and returned home.

I also made some insight / spontan thoughts as we were leaning to the sedation phase. In some moment it felt somewhat similar to S.divinorum, the term dissociative came in mind, it's hard to describe, but D#M is also considered a dissociative, no? Anyway. I also felt that particular spaces potential.

FURTHER THOUGHTS: In mid amanita doses, towards the sedation phase, the sedation is enough to have you feeling like you might easily sleep at any time, but some happy / uplifting trigger like a funny joke, an interesting conversation or anything one would do in a chill setting would feed the euphoria back. The somewhat energetic part, is a bit vanished though, after a while [1~2hours]. Also, drinking some more to get that euphoric/energetic feeling back while the experience is advancing [once you have decided that you re comfortable with the overall feeling, of course, and the energy rise has ceased] 'works' [I]best before the sedative phase approaches.

Amanita pantherina impressed me with it's potency. My material was somewhat 'boosted' if at all, but even though... less than 2 gr, maybe even 1,5 gram for such an effect.... Quite hard to measure the dose properly... I can only guess that 4 gr of this material will propabvly blow someone in a full blown amanita experience.

Beware of the pantherinas ! Very 'difficult' material...

opinions wanted=====
gods dead everything is permitted
no gods no masters