Marijuana: the legalization begins

[serf]

As usual, I agree with merlin 21 on this, but not completely. I'm off the page left. I am so far left that I don't even have a party. I am so far left that even liberals like edoters piss me off because I think they are close minded. Imagine that, close minded edoters... I am off the page crazy.

[merlin 21]

Originally Posted by CactusFlesh

Yes, this happens. It's real easy to point a finger at someone and say "Recreational!" One bad side I have seen from this is that there seems to be a real elitism coming out of the whole ayahuasca industry. I have heard many of those folks say things like "mushrooms are nowhere near as sophisticated as ayahuasca". Many of them feel that if your first experience came from the handful of mushrooms you ate that the kid across the street grew in his closet, it is not a worthy experience. But who are they to say that you can't eat mushrooms with the intention of just laughing like a fool in your backyard and not have the same intense spiritual experience that they had to pay a shaman $3,000 dollars for?

San Pedro or mushrooms can easily show you the same things as ayahuasca. Those who apply the non-recreational rules to tripping often under estimate the power of the entheogens, and the importance of individual differences.

It's been my observation that ANY mind altering substance has a range of potential. Most (if not all) have been used in a "sacred" context somewhere at some time by somebody. All of the same substances have an equal potential for "abuse" and/or "recreational" use.

I don't consider "abuse" and "recreational" to be interchangeable terms. I consider a chemical to be abused when it becomes part of a pattern of compulsive and/or self destructive behavior. "Recreation" would be something done for the sheer sensual/intellectual/artistic pleasure of the experience. IMO there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

When I used to go to Dead concerts there were (rare) occassions where it was arranged that the ENTIRE audience had the oppurtunity to take LSD (one such concert was attended by Joseph Campbell who sat stage rear, clearly awed) and of course most did. What I mean is that it was distributed freely by costumed individuals circulating through the crowd with overflowing baskets of dosed strawberries who could not be directly connected to the band in any way which could be traced. You might say that 12,000 people dancing, peaking on LSD simultaneously while in a virtual tribal mind meld with the band, the music and with each other is "recreational"... but I consider it far more "spiritual" than anything I've ever experienced in a church. More "spiritual" than eating Peyote by yourself? More spiritual than eating mushrooms and listening to Maria Sabina chanting on a record? IMO YES, because it involved other people. Those of us in industrialized cultures don't experience "tribal" very much in a typical day. For me, those few (of many) concerts were the only experiences I've ever had like that. BTW I had the oppurtunity to experience it a few times WITHOUT psychedelics...it was very "real" even without the "special effects."

I know there are elements in this community who look down their nose at such things. I don't care.

I've got nothing against "Aya tours" except that I can't afford one. If I had the spare money sitting around I might be tempted. For me, it would be more about anthropology than DMT. As far as what's "spiritual" about "hallucinogenic" chemicals I don't think it has anything to do with hallucinations. It would be more about the emotional aspect of the experience. Perhaps some would say the time distortion (or total obliteration!) aspect has conotations that might be called "spiritual." But watching the walls melt? Pure carnival stuff I think. It's like watching a scary movie or riding a roller coaster. Fun! What's wrong with that?

I'll close by saying that it can be a short step from "spiritual" to "self indulgent"...and that short step takes one from good to evil. "Spiritual" mostly takes place in the material world...it's about how you treat people, not how much cool shit you see when you're high.

[keeper of toast]

Back in the day when i used to use the forbidden plant, the spiritual aspect of it had never even crossed my mind. As one would say, it was purely recreational, though not abusive. It was a once a week maybe kinda thing, and never very much. But it helped me connect with some of the greatest friends I still have, and (I think) helped me through a depressed period in my life (or at least supressed it to managable levels).

So even though many entheogens could be/are used purely recreational, i believe they can bring about healing and brotherhood wiithout the concious recognition of the individual

[WorldBuilder]

To make things clear, I do not believe that any entheogen has the ability to save society. That being said, I do believe that many have the ability to improve it.

I believe that if Psilocybes were legalized, more people may try them(not sure how much, but probably at least 10% more). While not everyone would be "changed" or "change for the better", I believe that some would, and that would make a positive difference, even if only a few people were changed for the better.

On the other hand, if MJ was to be legalized, I don't think there would be much change at all, other than the public's perception of MJ, and people wouldn't have to worry about getting caught and whatnot (people wouldn't suffer any legal consequences either, for the most part).

Regardless, I believe that it is more of an outrage that Psilocybes are illegal than MJ. In regards to questions of health and addiction, while MJ's effects are negligible, shrooms have been shown to be even more harmless. In addition, mushrooms seem to have a greater potential for psychiatric treatment.

I may be wrong to think this, but I see the responsible and educated use of MJ as something that is more or less neutral, but I see the responsible and educated use of Psilocybin as something quite positive. MJ just seems to provide temporary enjoyment, but Psilocybin seems to provide a long-term increase in understanding of one's own consciousness (along with enjoyment). In my opinion, most people these days pay too little attention to interpreting their own or others' psychological functions. If we know more about how our own or other people's minds work, there is more potential for improvement.

[mconlonx]

The announcement by the Obama administration came the week before Maine voters approved expanded medical MJ laws, so count me among those who see it as a positive thing, regardless of results (or lack thereof). Legalization of MJ is more important because just like it is cited as a "gateway" drug by the prohibitionists, so too is it a gateway toward expanded legalization and regulation for the rest of the small number of prohibited substances.

BTW, an aya experience is hardly exclusive. Raw materials for such can be quasi-legally purchased for less than the cost of a mush grow setup, prep is shorter and lots less involved.

[JackARoe]

Originally Posted by merlin 21

You might say that 12,000 people dancing, peaking on LSD simultaneously while in a virtual tribal mind meld with the band, the music and with each other is "recreational"... but I consider it far more "spiritual" than anything I've ever experienced in a church. More "spiritual" than eating Peyote by yourself? More spiritual than eating mushrooms and listening to Maria Sabina chanting on a record? IMO YES, because it involved other people.

Oh man do I miss those days. 18 years of doing that until 1995. Nice write up Merlin. Those were absolute best times of my life as well as spiritual. You know I've been to festivals since but that magic of a genuine Grateful Dead concert is all but tucked away in my memory. The countless synchronicities and miracles that use to happen when everyone is in a psychedelic state. There really is something to that. It was VERY important. And it happened which is good enough for me.

I do feel we are coming out of some dark ages. Marijuana will be legal as will other plants. The oppression has to end as humanity moves towards freedom as time whirls by. Maybe some steps backwards but always steps forwards. It may take many years but it will happen. We see signs now but I will credit no man for that.

[gkannon77]

Many good points and all of which, if playing devils advocate, I could argue heartedly.

What must be understood first, however (and what most of us here can agree on), is that Life is here for specific purposes; photosynthesis, gas exchange between plants/animals, sustenance, enhancing quality of life, the food chain etc..

Understanding that primal facet of existence is key in responsibly understanding the importance of freeing other biological life, be it human or botanical, for whatever reason.

Swim has no qualms with using mu opioid agonists to grin a bit more, peyote to see a bit more, and mushrooms to know a bit more about ones self. Just as I wouldn’t read a historical description on the holocaust and expect to laugh; each has an explicit purpose, although the specific function may vary from person to person.

Only then, when the "symbiotic nature of nature", if you will, becomes apparent to the masses can legalization be correctly institutionalized.
Granted, such is a Utopian ideal. But I believe it accurately describes our current predicament as far as legalization goes.

As you have pointed out, “abuse” is the main reason these living plants are off limits. For me, however, without abuse I could never have found the truth within. It was a lesson that needed to be learned. Knowledge can come from the enjoyable, the painful and the beautiful.

So, who is to say what we should or shouldn’t do? … it begs the question, how far should we go to “protect ourselves, from ourselves”?...

-G7

[lurkmode]

brace yourselves!

this is huge:

American Medical Association Now Supports Medical Marijuana

AMA Ends 72-Year Policy, Says Marijuana Has Medical Benefits
By Americans for Safe Access - Tuesday, November 10 2009

The American Medical Association voted today to reverse its long-held position that marijuana be retained as a Schedule I substance with no medical value.

The AMA adopted a report drafted by the AMA Council on Science and Public Health (CSAPH) entitled, "Use of Cannabis for Medicinal Purposes," which affirmed the therapeutic benefits of marijuana and called for further research.

The CSAPH report concluded that, "short term controlled trials indicate that smoked cannabis reduces neuropathic pain, improves appetite and caloric intake especially in patients with reduced muscle mass, and may relieve spasticity and pain in patients with multiple sclerosis." Furthermore, the report urges that "the Schedule I status of marijuana be reviewed with the goal of facilitating clinical research and development of cannabinoid-based medicines, and alternate delivery methods."

The change of position by the largest physician-based group in the country was precipitated in part by a resolution adopted in June of 2008 by the Medical Student Section (MSS) of the AMA in support of the reclassification of marijuana's status as a Schedule I substance. In the past year, the AMA has considered three resolutions dealing with medical marijuana, which also helped to influence the report and its recommendations. The AMA vote on the report took place in Houston, Texas during the organization's annual Interim Meeting of the House of Delegates. The last AMA position, adopted 8 years ago, called for maintaining marijuana as a Schedule I substance, with no medical value.

"It's been 72 years since the AMA has officially recognized that marijuana has both already-demonstrated and future-promising medical utility," said Sunil Aggarwal, Ph.D., the medical student who spearheaded both the passage of the June 2008 resolution by the MSS and one of the CSAPH report's designated expert reviewers. "The AMA has written an extensive, well-documented, evidence-based report that they are seeking to publish in a peer-reviewed journal that will help to educate the medical community about the scientific basis of botanical cannabis-based medicines." Aggarwal is also on the Medical & Scientific Advisory Board of Americans for Safe Access (ASA), the largest medical marijuana advocacy organization in the U.S.

The AMA's about face on medical marijuana follows an announcement by the Obama Administration in October discouraging U.S. Attorneys from taking enforcement actions in medical marijuana states. In February 2008, a resolution was adopted by the American College of Physicians (ACP), the country's second largest physician group and the largest organization of doctors of internal medicine. The ACP resolution called for an "evidence-based review of marijuana's status as a Schedule I controlled substance to determine whether it should be reclassified to a different schedule. "The two largest physician groups in the U.S. have established medical marijuana as a health care issue that must be addressed," said ASA Government Affairs Director Caren Woodson. "Both organizations have underscored the need for change by placing patients above politics."

Though the CSAPH report has not been officially released to the public, AMA documentation indicates that it: "(1) provides a brief historical perspective on the use of cannabis as medicine; (2) examines the current federal and state-based legal envelope relevant to the medical use of cannabis; (3) provides a brief overview of our current understanding of the pharmacology and physiology of the endocannabinoid system; (4) reviews clinical trials on the relative safety and efficacy of smoked cannabis and botanical-based products; and (5) places this information in perspective with respect to the current drug regulatory framework."

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...,3003312.story

[keeper of toast]

we're definately headed in the right direction

[TheGoodLocust]

Originally Posted by lurkmode

brace yourselves!

this is huge:

American Medical Association Now Supports Medical Marijuana

Neat, they are probably trying to distract from their moronic endorsement of Obamacare.